Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:56:56 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
Your words are obviously designed to further fear and hate toward the Arab world. You are a bigot.

The Arab culture of Islam is despicable and should be hated and feared.

Appropriate hate and fear does not define bigotry, just prudence in the face of unpleasant realities.

The idea that Muslim areas of the world are generally yearning for secularism is absurd. Generally, if elections are allowed Islamic Fundamentalism is only a few votes away. This is proving to be the case even in Turkey where an anti-Islamic military under Kemal imposed secularism many decades ago. . . the secularism dies more and more every year.

It appears that only the Army (Kemals only real legacy) stands between Turkey and Islamic Fundamentalist tyranny.

The Saud Dynasty, of course, was supported by the Brits and...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (Ole Dude) — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:13:19 PST

LloydMiller wrote:
Islam has been held at bay by Western Imperialism, but has not, itself, EVOLVED in an enlightened direction. As soon as the "overlordship" of the West weakens in Muslim area we see a re-emergence of radical Islam, aided and abetted by Saudi money bags.

The alternative view is that Western interference purposely forced out secular regimes. Presumably the image of religious fanatics being a preferred enemy. The democratically elected secular Mosedeq regime in Iran was removed via a British encouraged CIA sponsored coup d'etat, which set the stage for the eventual Islamic Revolution, a move widely supported by the people as reinstating control over their country.

Also the displacement of the secular Fatah as representatives of the Palestinians by Hamas was supported by...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:08:02 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
My goodness, Lloyd, using your logic, we should direct all our arms at the Vatican to prevent another Inquisition.

Certainly, we should always be alert to the tendency of Vatican to "revert to type" and/or ally with the Muslims, but it is undeniable that Catholicism has evolved away from it classic "State Religion" status, UNLIKE ISLAM!

Islam has been held at bay by Western Imperialism, but has not, itself, EVOLVED in an enlightened direction. As soon as the "overlordship" of the West weakens in Muslim area we see a re-emergence of radical Islam, aided and abetted by Saudi money bags.

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:02:38 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
The Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent mainly took place from the 11th to the 17th centuries.

Yes, after that Western Imperialism took over in India. Muslim Rajahs, etc. became subservient to British overlords.

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (Ole Dude) — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:49:08 PST

LloydMiller wrote:

Has this writer failed to note the pyramids of Hindu heads stacked by Muslims in the conqest of India and stacks of other Asiatic heads further East?

My goodness, Lloyd, using your logic, we should direct all our arms at the Vatican to prevent another Inquisition.

From wikipedia "Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent":

The Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent mainly took place from the 11th to the 17th centuries.

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:09:44 PST

LloydMiller wrote:
For the first millennium, the story follows the expansion of Muslim caliphates at the expense of the Byzantine Empire and the emerging Christian kingdoms of Western Europe. Later, with the Christian conquest of Iberia and the Crusades, the two sides began to establish a balance of power that tipped toward the Christians in the nineteenth century.

Has this writer failed to note the pyramids of Hindu heads stacked by Muslims in the conqest of India and stacks of other Asiatic heads further East?

The West must use its superior power to defeat Islam while it still has the military advantage. Whatever it takes. There can be no peace with Islam because of its nature clearly revealed in the Koran.

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:04:33 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
I have serious questions regarding the nonsense about Al Qaida, 9/11, and the issue of who are the aggressors in the Middle East.

Everywhere Islam is, it was the aggressor.

All of their conquests from the Philipinnes to Spain should be reversed. Let them sit in their own filth in Arabia where they belong. Islam in an ugly blot on the world. For their opposition to music and art alone, to say nothing of their treatment of women, it must be destroyed.

There can be no such thing as an aggressor against Islam. If there where, such aggressors should be applauded.

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:56:31 PST

LloydMiller wrote:

History shows not only Islam using the sword, but Christianity as well. Please recall the Crusades and the conquest of Iberia. Read the Old Testament, common to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity for a description of ruthless conquest in God's name.

The Crusades were a defensive response (often ugly and ill-conceived) to Islam's conquests and forced conversions in Asia Minor. Unlike the Koran, nothing in the Bible, old or new, calls for world conquest. Of course, the Old Testament does call for tribal conquest of the promised land for the chosen people. The New Testament does not call for military action at all, unlike the Koran. European appeals to Christianity for support in conquest and forced conversion (like Spain in South America) were difficult to justify by any reasonable reading...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:16:47 PST

Ole Dude wrote:

LloydMiller wrote:
Islam uses the sword. After conquest, convert or off with your head. I guess that is "brainwashing" in a sense. Comparing that to religious advocacy by Baptists is simple-minded.

Read the Koran, study Islamic history, observe Saudi activities world-wide. Remember, Idi Amin was a Saudi sponsored operation. When it finally failed they gave him sanctuary.

History shows not only Islam using the sword, but Christianity as well. Please recall the Crusades and the conquest of Iberia. Read the Old Testament, common to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity for a description of ruthless conquest in God's name.

I have...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (Ole Dude) — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 10:39:46 PST

LloydMiller wrote:
Islam uses the sword. After conquest, convert or off with your head. I guess that is "brainwashing" in a sense. Comparing that to religious advocacy by Baptists is simple-minded.

Read the Koran, study Islamic history, observe Saudi activities world-wide. Remember, Idi Amin was a Saudi sponsored operation. When it finally failed they gave him sanctuary.

History shows not only Islam using the sword, but Christianity as well. Please recall the Crusades and the conquest of Iberia. Read the Old Testament, common to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity for a description of ruthless conquest in God's name.

I have serious questions regarding the nonsense about Al Qaida, 9/11, and the issue of who are the aggressors in the Middle...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:26:51 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
I have witnessed presentations by Moslems in which conversion was invited and was as voluntary as anything the Baptists would have presented. Personally I think both use a form of brainwashing. In any case the answer is not military obliteration but opening people's minds so that they are able to overcome or reject the brainwashing attempt. You seem to have the absurd notion that Islam has locks of brainwashing techniques.

Islam uses the sword. After conquest, convert or off with your head. I guess that is "brainwashing" in a sense. Comparing that to religious advocacy by Baptists is simple-minded.

Read the Koran, study Islamic history, observe Saudi activities world-wide. Remember, Idi Amin was a Saudi sponsored operation. When it finally failed they gave him sanctuary.

You sound like the...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (Ole Dude) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:06:11 PST

LloydMiller wrote:

Ole Dude wrote:
Wow, talk about non sequiturs! Value judgement is all you have presented as pseudo-justification for war on Islam.
War on Islam is justified by the undeniable fact that the essence of Islam is world conquest. The essence of very few Civilizations is World Conquest. Islam is rather unique in this matter. With Islam, unlike most social organisms, destroy or be destoyed is the only alternative. This is due to the nature of Islam, nothing else! Unless you want to be absorbed by the BORG you must fight to the death and without quarter.

Once again you assert your belief, and you even assert that it is undeniable, but you provide no documented evidence to support your claim....

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:04:29 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
You are either not comprehending or pretending that you do not comprehend. Please, whether you agree or not could you acknowledge my assertion that your statement and my statement above are the same thing. The battlefield for ruling class factions IS the dialectic in operation. Regardless of who wins or how it gets settled or even if it gets settled the ruling class remains the ruling class and everyone else remains the peons. Getting caught up in the dialectic, real or imagined, inhibits the development of a meaningful challenge to the ruling class. Totalitarianism is totalitarianism regardless of what it is called by the different factions. The meaningful issue is not left vs. right. It is top vs. bottom.

No, there is an IRON LAW of HIERARCHY. There is always a tiny elite that sets the parameters of society for the rest of...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (Ole Dude) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:42:54 PST

LloydMiller wrote:

That is mass media dialectic in operation.

No, the mass media is a battlefield for ruling class factions.

You are either not comprehending or pretending that you do not comprehend. Please, whether you agree or not could you acknowledge my assertion that your statement and my statement above are the same thing. The battlefield for ruling class factions IS the dialectic in operation. Regardless of who wins or how it gets settled or even if it gets settled the ruling class remains the ruling class and everyone else remains the peons. Getting caught up in the dialectic, real or imagined, inhibits the development of a meaningful challenge to the ruling class. Totalitarianism is totalitarianism regardless of...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:29:01 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
Wow, talk about non sequiturs! Value judgement is all you have presented as pseudo-justification for war on Islam.

War on Islam is justified by the undeniable fact that the essence of Islam is world conquest. The essence of very few Civilizations is World Conquest. Islam is rather unique in this matter. With Islam, unlike most social organisms, destroy or be destoyed is the only alternative. This is due to the nature of Islam, nothing else! Unless you want to be absorbed by the BORG you must fight to the death and without quarter.

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:16:53 PST

Ole Dude wrote:

You keep making wild statements with no evidence to support them.

No, you refuse to acknowledge evidence.

I rarely spend time with the mass media, and apparently you rarely or narrowly spend time on the web. Revelation of PNAC is one of the things that brought down the neo-cons. Google it or look it up in wikipedia.

If you don't spend time with the mass media, you should then have NO OPINION as to its array of propaganda messages. Of course, I knew about the NeoCon Project for a New American Century though I don't memorize acronyms. The PNAC was defeated by the Rockefeller/Big Oil/Saudi/UN conspiracy. A TRAGEDY! The world needed PNAC. Instead it will get ONE WORLD / UN / ISLAMIC tyranny!

That is mass media dialectic in operation....

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:08:46 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
My psychologist said that I was not paranoid precisely because I had no hostility associated with by beliefs.

Sounds like a lame brain psychobabbler to me? I have no idea why your give any credence to this particular psychobabbler. Is "hostility" always wrong? Always a symptom of paranoia? No, ideas that accuratey grasp a real threat SHOULD provoke hostility. . . !! Yes, I am hostile to Islamic world conquest. I am not deterred by the fact of Western Imperialism. I prefer the victory of Western Imperialism to Islamic victory. Unless Islam evolves very rapidly toward of philosophical shell, there is no alternative.

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:00:52 PST

Ole Dude wrote:
Well I think you are at least getting closer to what you want to say. It would appear that you may have fallen into the indoctrination neurosis being advanced to falsely justify Western aggression on the Arab world. Aside from your constant disparagement you are yet to present evidence that supports the ridiculous notion that a unified Arab leadership has the intention or expectation of conquering the world.

Islam was conceived as a tool for Arab world conquest, plus King Saud supports Islamic insurgency and Mosque building all over the world, just as the Koran demands of him. No evidence? No evidence YOU want to consider.

On the other hand the ruling elite of the Western World have demonstrated rather conclusively that they have the intention and expectation of destroying Arab and Islamic civilization.....no doubt as the next step...

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (Ole Dude) — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 11:08:01 PST

LloydMiller wrote:

Ole Dude wrote:
Well I think you are at least getting closer to what you want to say. It would appear that you may have fallen into the indoctrination neurosis being advanced to falsely justify Western aggression on the Arab world. Aside from your constant disparagement you are yet to present evidence that supports the ridiculous notion that a unified Arab leadership has the intention or expectation of conquering the world. On the other hand the ruling elite of the Western World have demonstrated rather conclusively that they have the intention and expectation of destroying Arab and Islamic civilization.....no doubt as the next step in establishing world hegemony (see PNAC for supporting documentation).

Re: Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (Ole Dude) — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:07:21 PST

You keep making wild statements with no evidence to support them.

I rarely spend time with the mass media, and apparently you rarely or narrowly spend time on the web. Revelation of PNAC is one of the things that brought down the neo-cons. Google it or look it up in wikipedia.

You seem to be caught up in the time warp from the past that the corporate media has been attempting to preserve among the couch potatoes. You seem to have the nutball perception that anything that does not support the neo-cons supports Obama and the socialists. Nonsense. That is mass media dialectic in operation.

Erroneous Conspiracy Paradigms

feeds@yuku.com (LloydMiller) — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:55:50 PST

I have started this topic not to critique in detail various "conspiracy theories", but to point-out what I consider profound errors of perspective. The following post/rant is typical of a common error which I will explain as time permits: (Anyone care to guess what I think the "error" is?)

http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/International_Forecaster_Weekly/The_New_Gods_Of_Finance_Will_Crush_The_Middle_Class

The New Gods Of Finance Will Crush...