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President Obama has signed an order requiring all U.S. agencies dealing with captured combatants to abide by the Army Field Manual, and today at the State Department he pledged that the United States will not engage in any form of torture.
This moots this discussion for the near future, unless you believe -- and I don't - -that he's speaking with a forked tongue and will look the other way.
Another thing that moots the discussion about torture is that the United States government has been testing technology, since at least 1994, which runs brain scans -- which can be obtained even without the subject's knowledge from a distance -- through sophisticated software analysis and can effectively read the mind of a prisoner being interrogated. CBS's 60 Minutes reported on this technology on January 4th and the video -- plus additional information and discussion -- is at
http://articles.mercola.c...tists-read-your-mind.aspxApparently the idea of wearing an aluminum-foil hat to prevent sinister forces from reading and controlling your mind may not be a conspicuous symptom of psychosis after all.
Neil
--- In LeftLibertarian@yahoogroups.com, rnh <largebear08a@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: libertarianlawyer <jeo1@...>
> >Sent: Jan 21, 2009 9:52 PM
> >To: LeftLibertarian@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [LeftLibertarian] Re: CSC: Things that make you go
> >
> >--- In LeftLibertarian@yahoogroups.com, rnh <largebear08a@> wrote:
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >From: "J. Neil Schulman" <jneil@>
> >> >Sent: Jan 21, 2009 5:40 PM
> >> >To: LeftLibertarian@yahoogroups.com
> >> >Subject: [LeftLibertarian] Re: CSC: Things that make you go
> >> >
> >> >--- In LeftLibertarian@yahoogroups.com, rnh <largebear08a@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. We don't brag about waterboarding, as though it were the
> >highest
> >> >expression of Western Civilization
> >> >
> >> >Dennis Miller and Bill O'Reilly do brag in precisely that way.
> >
> >
> >Its supporters brag about it, but thats irrelevant. The fact is you
> >cant claim any moral superiority that US always does if you practice
> >these and other, far worse practices as we do.
> >I dont know if you follow the news, but its been widely reported that
> >the videotapes of interrogations and 'confessions' that the CIA and
> >military obtained, which were under court supboena, were conveniently
> >lost or destroyed by those who had custody of these tapes. So a lot
> >of evidence was willfully destroyed by one of the parties to
> >litigation, in most legal areas that would result in contempt and\or
> >obstruction of justice charges.
> >
> >And also, there is that little issue of treaty, law and commond
> >decency and logic that "evidence" obtained through coercive
> >techniques such as torture, beatings etc is unreliable and thus
> >INADMISSABLE, and thus CANT be used in prosecutions, which was
> >supposedly the whole point of the torture in the first place. Read
> >Judge Crawford, the Bush appointed chief military judge, who just
> >issues an opinion on this where waterboarding wasnt at issue, but
> >other torture was.
> >
> >
> _________________________________________
>
> Hi
>
> Please feel free to provide the undoubtedly endless list of
instances where U.S. officials or anyone else in America has bragged about waterboarding. Or other forms of "torture".
>
> Please feel free to provide actual evidence, rather than unsupported
assertions, that we engage in far worse practices.
>
> Please feel free to provide actual evidence, rather than unsupported
assertions, that we engage in far worse practices than our enemies.
>
> Please feel free to provide actual evidence that we are morally
equivalent of our enemies, starting with a list of the known practices by the other side with a parallel list where we have done the same.
>
> If evidence was lost or destroyed, prosecute them for that, this
time around. But stop treating war like a criminal case.
>
> There you go again, stuck in a morass of legalisms. The main
purpose of most of our interrogations was not to use information against them in court, but to save lives. INADMISSIBILITY is not the issue. But if you worry more about admissibility on the battlefield, it's a good way to lose a war. Try a little thought experiment and ask how effectively we could have conducted WWII if we had to read Miranda rights and ensure a legally acceptable chain of custody for evidence regarding every one of the 400,000 enemy combatants detained in POW camps in the U.S. I guess you would have let them all go back to Germany or Japan. Not too bright.
>
> Randy
>
------------------------------------
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